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Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:56 pm
by The Noid
Users can't post replies to the update thread, so I made this one. Hope that's cool.

Suggestions off the top of my head:
  • Make the game brighter
I'm finding the game quite dark. It feels like the saturation and contrast are turned way up, and it makes the whole thing feel... dark.

  • 10,000 Dough is a LOT for a trophy, when you only need 1000 to unlock everything
I know that trophies can be patched and their requirements changed, so I'd suggest making the requirement a lot lower. Best case scenario, have a single trophy - "Unlock everything", rather than the dense (Get it? Dense like bread? Haha...). I know trophies aren't often top of mind when designing a game, but we trophy hunters are pretty enthusiastic about them, and making your trophies less frustrating can bring a lot of us to bat for you.

Re: Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:09 am
by NiKo MaKi
Thanks for the suggestions The Noid, and also for creating this thread (I've linked to it from the Updates board).

From the testing we had done, it seemed like unlocking all the Tabs happened too quickly, but was left this way to help ones get into the game quicker (the learning curve seemed rather small, and this incentive seemed to help get over it mostly). If you become use to the game, though, collecting the dough can become easier, and so the 10,000 trophy goal seemed reasonable.

Time is being spent to improve the overall experience of the game right now, which might take some time. As such, some of these trophies might indeed be changed (however, I'm unsure at the moment how Sony would handle such changes - especially for those who have already earned a certain trophy).

If I may ask, what are you looking for in a trophy's goal? Something meaningful, quick, or satisfying in some other way?
Also, what do you think of the suggestions for improvement that NiKo MaKi has stated in the Updates post? (found here... viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4 for those who haven't seen it)

Thanks again for your suggestions and opinions!

Re: Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:27 pm
by The Noid
What I PERSONALLY look for in trophies is simply fun.

Make the trophies about playing the game the way YOU meant it to be played.

Let's look at the current trophies, and assume that I am ONLY playing your game for trophies. What do I need to do to get all the trophies? I need to grind it out by finding the most efficient way possible to farm Dough. That's all. I've played the game a fair bit (I've unlocked everything), and have found a relatively efficient way to farm Dough. Even so, I get maybe 300 per game (ggamer had told me he could get more, but we've not spoken at great length on specific methods yet). So again, assuming I just want to get the trophies in your game, my time with your game is going to be spent with 4 controllers plugged in, 3 of them AFK while I punch them, and scramble around picking up the dough. That's not very fun.

Let's say you have some variety to the trophies. It's fairly clear that you want people to use motion controls (as demonstrated by them being the default control scheme). Make a trophy for playing a round with motion controls turned on. This will push people to at least TRY your intended method.

I don't have to do anything special to get all the trophies. The trophies as they exist now at their simplest is me turning off motion controls and punching AFK controllers until they're all out of Dough.

Make a trophy for having the highest Dough at the end of a round vs 7 bots. Then I'll PLAY your game, rather than cheesing it. A lot of people won't explore the game and see what might be fun about it if all you ask of them is to grind out Dough.

When you look at your trophy list and say "This is reasonable", you've missed the point. Take a look at your game and ask yourself "What's fun about this game?" and then center trophies around that. If I have all the trophies in under an hour, but had fun doing so, I'm much more likely to suggest it to friends.

Also, off the topic of trophies, I often take damage and LOSE Dough for seemingly NO reason. Any clue what that might be? It SEEMS to be that collision with the elements in the levels causes damage under certain conditions. This is especially prevalent in the more crowded locales (specifically the second level, the name of which I don't recall). I was grinding Dough against AFK controllers and lost a good 100 Dough to random damage out of nowhere. Any thoughts on that? Is this the intended design?

Re: Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:32 am
by NiKo MaKi
Thanks for the details The Noid.

It had been realized that you could collect the dough by having just added players without anyone actually playing them, to then easily get dough from them. Originally it was desired where saving for all logged in players would happen in a brawl, so that this would be discouraged (although people could still create dummy accounts specifically for this purpose).

Your suggestion for having the dough collected only count toward a trophy if it came from a computer controlled character is nice. It was thought that this would be too specific for the average player to want as part of a goal, though, so this method wasn't chosen. At the beginning, some of the trophy requirements simply felt too specific, is why a more simpler approach was taken. However, this is nice information and feedback for future trophies, and is much appreciated. It will help shape our future thoughts on trophy requirements for sure.

As for the random hits, there seems to be an issue with the physics which is triggered at some point by something unknown at this time. However, it seems to possibly start through the grabbing of objects.
Given the physics and collision detection is done through Unity, there is not complete control over this. So this problem is still being tracked down as to exactly what is causing it. If you have had any further way to reproduce it, please let us know.

Re: Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:39 pm
by The Noid
One thing I noticed is that fists are basically actively damaging no matter the context.

So let's say I have an AFK controller, and I walk up to their character. If I run into their fists, it damages me, even if they're not actively punching me. It's happened a number of times where I'll punch a character and they will bounce around and end up hitting me right back, simply because their fist happened to bounce into me while in flight. You can literally just walk into someone and take damage.

Re: Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:02 pm
by NiKo MaKi
Hi The Noid.
Yes, this is true. This isn't a bug. This could be changed to where it is only possible to give damage when the arm is extended. Would this be more reasonable to you?
Thanks for the feedback.

Re: Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:09 am
by The Noid
Yeah I think I'd more expect an extended arm to be the only way to damage someone. Not just because I'm playing against AFK controllers (I've actually since stopped doing so, and am playing with the AI), but because it's simply unexpected from a user's point of view.

Re: Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:17 pm
by Medium-RareAkuma

I recently got this game, and the local multiplayer is great!
There's just a few problems:

-Spirit Mode doesn't appear to do much.
-Not many unlocks.
-People who tend to only stack Power ingredients almost always have the upper hand, regardless of stat loss.

So here's some possible solutions.

-Add an extra ingredient slot that determines what happens when you enter spirit mode. Maybe one that has you shoot fireballs out of your hands. Or pull out a big piece of Italian bread to use as a sword. Or baking soda makes you humongous.
-Well, adding another slot adds more unlockables, but you could just make some ingredients linked to specific accomplishments, like getting 300 dough in one match unlocks something.
-Rather than needing power ingredients, you should buff stats gained. Make speed breads punch much faster. Male balance breads almost impossible to knock down and much harder to launch. Also increase the caps for stats, and increase per-point buffs to everything but power. Also make a few ingredients that give both Toughness and balance, so you don't have to choose.

Re: Suggestions for Improvement

Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:37 am
by NiKo MaKi
Hi Medium-RareAkuma. Thanks so much for your post.

About Spirit Mode, when activated/unleashed your stats double (so you run faster, hit harder, etc.) and if you continue to hold down the L1 and R1 buttons, you will Fly.

Also thanks for the suggestions for improvements. a spiritual successor to TBPB is in the works, and with it a lot of changes. Basically nothing will be the same other than the concept itself (food brawling in pubs). There are no plans for modifying TBPB as sales could not support such. Also technically, with the advancement of Unity and Sony system updates (and their TRCs) it makes trying to update the game impossible, as it broke the physics completely. So, the game really needs to be recreated from scratch.

I'll be making a forum for this new successor to TBPB, so please post whatever wishes you have for it there. I'll also be posting the general direction it's going in, too.

Thanks again for your support of TBPB and the idea in general!